"The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

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"The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Robert Heller
I'm getting this "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?"
dialog. It does not say what the problem is.  How do I find out what the
problem is?  I am not interested in reporting it.  I suspect it is something
stupid that I can fix, but I cannot figure out how to find out what is wrong.  
This is with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.  I am used to CentOS and used to a less
pointy-clicky user interface, where one gets real error messages, not these
silly "idiot light" dianostics.

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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Oliver Grawert
hi,
Am Freitag, den 24.08.2018, 19:49 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:

> I'm getting this "The system detected a problem, do you want to
> report it?" 
> dialog. It does not say what the problem is.  How do I find out what
> the 
> problem is?  I am not interested in reporting it.  I suspect it is
> something 
> stupid that I can fix, but I cannot figure out how to find out what
> is wrong.  
> This is with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.  I am used to CentOS and used to a
> less 
> pointy-clicky user interface, where one gets real error messages, not
> these 
> silly "idiot light" dianostics.
it is a two-dialog setup ... confirm the first one ... the second one
has a details option where you can find out whats wrong ...

ciao
        oli
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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Robert Heller
At Sat, 25 Aug 2018 02:25:39 +0200 "Ubuntu user technical support,  not for general discussions" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> hi,
> Am Freitag, den 24.08.2018, 19:49 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:
> > I'm getting this "The system detected a problem, do you want to
> > report it?" 
> > dialog. It does not say what the problem is.  How do I find out what
> > the 
> > problem is?  I am not interested in reporting it.  I suspect it is
> > something 
> > stupid that I can fix, but I cannot figure out how to find out what
> > is wrong.  
> > This is with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.  I am used to CentOS and used to a
> > less 
> > pointy-clicky user interface, where one gets real error messages, not
> > these 
> > silly "idiot light" dianostics.
>
> it is a two-dialog setup ... confirm the first one ... the second one
> has a details option where you can find out whats wrong ...
How do I get the second step?  The report just dismisses the diallog, just
like the cancel.  I presumed that the report button sends a report somewhere.

>
> ciao
> oliContent-Description: This is a digitally signed message part
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iEYEABEKAAYFAluAogQACgkQSsOT+6LQaTZVXgCg7uLo9RI4oCaBwnM8Onw+xZ5Y
> nmcAoM82muUgYW1V6a+4bX0Cavc5zWat
> =HJdt
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Oliver Grawert
hi,
Am Freitag, den 24.08.2018, 23:29 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:

> > it is a two-dialog setup ... confirm the first one ... the second
> > one
> > has a details option where you can find out whats wrong ...
> How do I get the second step?  The report just dismisses the diallog,
> just 
> like the cancel.  I presumed that the report button sends a report
> somewhere.

confirming the first dialog initializes the report *collection*. the
second one allows you to inspect contents and to confirm/deny the
sending of the data.

ciao
        oli
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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Robert Heller
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 23:29:24 -0400 (EDT), Robert Heller wrote:
>How do I get the second step?

I don't know, but you could take a look in /var/crash/.

Reportedly you could disable apport in /etc/default/apport or disable
crash reporting as described by the Wiki, see
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#How_to_enable_apport .

If all Ubuntu users would remove apport and whoopsie and stop manually
reporting bugs, Ubuntu perhaps would consider to drop the complicated,
unusable bug tracker and migrate to a "normal", sane bug tracker, that
easily allows to manually report bugs, as it could be done for most, if
not all other FLOSS projects.

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ apt list -qqa 'whoopsie'
whoopsie/xenial-updates 0.2.52.5 amd64
whoopsie/xenial 0.2.52 amd64

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ apt list -qqa 'apport'
apport/xenial-updates,xenial-updates,xenial-security,xenial-security
2.20.1-0ubuntu2.18 all apport/xenial,xenial 2.20.1-0ubuntu2 all

Note, even debugging information collected _without_ root privileges
could contain sensitive data, such as passwords and credit card data.

The Wiki claims that by default apport crash report for stable releases
is disabled for privacy reasons, see
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#Why_is_apport_disabled_by_default.3F .

"Arguments" pro Ubuntu's bug tracking policy, such as "End users do not
know how to prepare a report that is really useful for developers, like
building a package with debug symbols, operating gdb,
etc." ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#What_is_this_all_about.3F )
are utter nonsense. An one-year-old doesn't know how to boil water, an
elementary school child does know how to do it. Bug reports are
like "boiling water", they are not like "construction of rockets".


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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Colin Law
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 10:12, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> If all Ubuntu users would remove apport and whoopsie and stop manually
> reporting bugs, Ubuntu perhaps would consider to drop the complicated,
> unusable bug tracker and migrate to a "normal", sane bug tracker, that
> easily allows to manually report bugs, as it could be done for most, if
> not all other FLOSS projects.

What is complicated about OKing two dialogs to allow the crash to be
reported? That is all one has to do in this situation.

Colin

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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 10:20:04 +0100, Colin Law wrote:

>On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 10:12, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>> ...
>> If all Ubuntu users would remove apport and whoopsie and stop
>> manually reporting bugs, Ubuntu perhaps would consider to drop the
>> complicated, unusable bug tracker and migrate to a "normal", sane
>> bug tracker, that easily allows to manually report bugs, as it could
>> be done for most, if not all other FLOSS projects.  
>
>What is complicated about OKing two dialogs to allow the crash to be
>reported? That is all one has to do in this situation.

Auto-reports are bad. I'm not aware of many project that asks for
"auto-reports". AFAIK they are Ubuntu, Mozilla, bloated desktop
environments and perhaps a few other, while IIRC Ubuntu is the only
project that makes reporting bugs manually hard, more or less
impossible.

It's complicated to report a bug manually to the Ubuntu bug tracker.

Ubuntu is the only FLOSS project I know, that makes manually reporting
bugs more or less impossible.

If you know any other project where a user cannot simply create an
account, log in and easily report a bug manually, let me know.

If it nowadays should be easy to manually report a bug to the Ubuntu
bug tracker, please provide a step by step guide and share how easy it
has become.


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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Colin Law
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 11:09, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Auto-reports are bad.

Why?
Have you researched what the auto reports are used for?

>
> It's complicated to report a bug manually to the Ubuntu bug tracker.

That (even if true, which it is not in my experience) is irrelevant to
this thread, which is about the auto reports

Colin

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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Colin Law
On Sat, 2018-08-25 at 10:20 +0100, Colin Law wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 10:12, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > ...
> > If all Ubuntu users would remove apport and whoopsie and stop manually
> > reporting bugs, Ubuntu perhaps would consider to drop the complicated,
> > unusable bug tracker and migrate to a "normal", sane bug tracker, that
> > easily allows to manually report bugs, as it could be done for most, if
> > not all other FLOSS projects.
>
> What is complicated about OKing two dialogs to allow the crash to be
> reported? That is all one has to do in this situation.

Even if I shouldn't consider auto-reports as bad, why does somebody want
to run a crash daemon on e.g. a real-time environment that needs all
resources and that should run stable?

What if a bug doesn't crash or if that auto-thingy is buggy itself?

What about feature requests, e.g. asking to compile a package with
additional flags?

Btw. don't recommend just to click two times ok! The user first needs to
remove passwords and other sensible information from a bug report.



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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 2018-08-25 at 12:17 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> On Sat, 2018-08-25 at 10:20 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
> > On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 10:12, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > ...
> > > If all Ubuntu users would remove apport and whoopsie and stop manually
> > > reporting bugs, Ubuntu perhaps would consider to drop the complicated,
> > > unusable bug tracker and migrate to a "normal", sane bug tracker, that
> > > easily allows to manually report bugs, as it could be done for most, if
> > > not all other FLOSS projects.
> >
> > What is complicated about OKing two dialogs to allow the crash to be
> > reported? That is all one has to do in this situation.
>
> Even if I shouldn't consider auto-reports as bad, why does somebody want
> to run a crash daemon on e.g. a real-time environment that needs all
> resources and that should run stable?
>
> What if a bug doesn't crash or if that auto-thingy is buggy itself?
>
> What about feature requests, e.g. asking to compile a package with
> additional flags?
>
> Btw. don't recommend just to click two times ok! The user first needs to
> remove passwords and other sensible information from a bug report.

If the user has got no root privileges, how could the user report bugs
using this auto-crap?



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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Colin Law
On Sat, 2018-08-25 at 11:16 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 11:09, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Auto-reports are bad.
>
> Why?

A daemon needs to run.
Users don't understand what they are doing, by just clicking ok, so it's
a security risk. It's easy to help the user to manually report a bug.

> Have you researched what the auto reports are used for?

Yes, they are good for absolutely nothing, but to offend privacy and to
avoid helping users to learn.

> > It's complicated to report a bug manually to the Ubuntu bug tracker.
>
> That (even if true, which it is not in my experience) is irrelevant to
> this thread, which is about the auto reports

Feel free to explain how to do it! It is relevant, perhaps more users
would decide to remove whoopsie and apport.



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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Colin Law
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 11:28, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Sat, 2018-08-25 at 11:16 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
> > On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 11:09, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Auto-reports are bad.
> >
> > Why?
>
> A daemon needs to run.
> Users don't understand what they are doing, by just clicking ok, so it's
> a security risk. It's easy to help the user to manually report a bug.

My understanding is that auto-reports are anonymised.

>
> > Have you researched what the auto reports are used for?
>
> Yes, they are good for absolutely nothing, but to offend privacy and to
> avoid helping users to learn.

Did you find this in your research?  I think that is useful to some.
Then the developer can tunnel into the data to find what the crashes
are in a particular app.
https://errors.ubuntu.com/

>
> > > It's complicated to report a bug manually to the Ubuntu bug tracker.
> >
> > That (even if true, which it is not in my experience) is irrelevant to
> > this thread, which is about the auto reports
>
> Feel free to explain how to do it! It is relevant, perhaps more users
> would decide to remove whoopsie and apport.

How to manually report a bug is irrelevant to this thread, if you want
help with that then please start a new thread.

Colin

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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 11:41:36 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 11:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Users don't understand what they are doing, by just clicking ok, so
>> it's a security risk.
>
>My understanding is that auto-reports are anonymised.

Then edit the Wiki!
===================

"Why is apport disabled by default?

Apport is not enabled by default in stable releases, even if it is
installed. The automatic crash interception component of apport is
disabled by default in stable releases for a number of reasons:

    Apport collects potentially sensitive data, such as core dumps,
    stack traces, and log files. They can contain passwords, credit
    card numbers, serial numbers, and other private material.

    This is mitigated by the fact that it presents you what will be
    sent to the bug tracker, and that all crash report bugs are private
    by default, limited to the Ubuntu bug triaging team. We can
    reasonably expect developers and technically savvy users, who run
    the development release, to be aware of this and judge whether it
    is appropriate to file a crash report. But we shouldn't assume that
    every Ubuntu user of stable releases is able to do so. In 12.04 and
    up this is transparently handled by whoopsie, see ErrorTracker.
    During the development release we already collect thousands of
    crash reports, much more than we can ever fix. Continuing to
    collect those for stable releases is not really useful, since The
    most important crashes have already been discovered in the
    development release.

        The less important ones are not suitable for getting fixed in
        stable releases (see
        https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates Asking users to
        send crash reports to us is insincere, since we can't possibly
        answer and deal with all of them. Data collection from apport
        takes a nontrivial amount of CPU and I/O resources, which slow
        down the computer and don't allow you to restart the crashed
        program for several seconds.

Note apport does not trap SIGABRT signals. If you are getting such a
signal, then please see DebuggingProgramCrash." -
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#Why_is_apport_disabled_by_default.3F

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 19:49:33 -0400 (EDT), Robert Heller wrote:
>This is with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.

It's a stable release ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases ). Colin
perhaps will correct the Wiki.


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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Oliver Grawert
hi,
Am Samstag, den 25.08.2018, 13:29 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:

> On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 11:41:36 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 11:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > >
> > > Users don't understand what they are doing, by just clicking ok,
> > > so
> > > it's a security risk.
> > My understanding is that auto-reports are anonymised.
> Then edit the Wiki!
> ===================
>
> "Why is apport disabled by default?
>
this is not true since 16.04 anymore i think (also the wiki is pretty
outdated as you can see by the old theme of the screenshots (they are
from 12.04 or so)). 

the UI changed into the two dialog setup, data is anonymized, whoopsie
got massively improved since it got added in 12.04 to not massively hit
system ressources anymore. check a 16.04 install (if you have one), you
should see "enabled=1" in /etc/default/apport there.

dont trust wiki data ... it is usually outdated ;)
(but you can indeed at any time change and improve it as you noted
yourself, feel free ;) )

ciao
        oli
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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Robert Heller
In reply to this post by Oliver Grawert
At Sat, 25 Aug 2018 11:00:36 +0200 "Ubuntu user technical support,  not for general discussions" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> hi,
> Am Freitag, den 24.08.2018, 23:29 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:
> > 
> > > it is a two-dialog setup ... confirm the first one ... the second
> > > one
> > > has a details option where you can find out whats wrong ...
> > How do I get the second step?  The report just dismisses the diallog,
> > just 
> > like the cancel.  I presumed that the report button sends a report
> > somewhere.
>
> confirming the first dialog initializes the report *collection*. the
> second one allows you to inspect contents and to confirm/deny the
> sending of the data.
I'm not seeing this.

>
> ciao
> oliContent-Description: This is a digitally signed message part
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iEYEABEKAAYFAluBGrUACgkQSsOT+6LQaTaOYACeNuliknxG2lUUG6sd9CkD4xl2
> Vp0Ani9ACu6bSPtWotcayCvwQivGtuKm
> =866k
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Oliver Grawert
hi,
Am Samstag, den 25.08.2018, 08:30 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:

> > confirming the first dialog initializes the report *collection*.
> > the
> > second one allows you to inspect contents and to confirm/deny the
> > sending of the data.
> I'm not seeing this.

First dialog:

https://imgur.com/a/eTcVV1R

(click "Report problem" here ... that starts the collection ...)

Second dialog:

https://imgur.com/a/YKf8GWi

(uncheck the "send" checkbox and click the "Show details" button to see
info about the app that crashed ...)

ciao
        oli


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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Robert Heller
At Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:52:01 +0200 "Ubuntu user technical support,  not for general discussions" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> hi,
> Am Samstag, den 25.08.2018, 08:30 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:
> > 
> > > confirming the first dialog initializes the report *collection*.
> > > the
> > > second one allows you to inspect contents and to confirm/deny the
> > > sending of the data.
> > I'm not seeing this.
>
> First dialog:
>
> https://imgur.com/a/eTcVV1R
>
> (click "Report problem" here ... that starts the collection ...)
>
> Second dialog:
>
> https://imgur.com/a/YKf8GWi
I don't seem to be getting the second dialog.

>
> (uncheck the "send" checkbox and click the "Show details" button to see
> info about the app that crashed ...)
>
> ciao
> oli
>
> Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iEYEABEKAAYFAluBUPEACgkQSsOT+6LQaTYB2QCgz75oVx9CHpyr65C3d0BeHXze
> 6GYAn2MOqr+FLrD6KzhttHD2HQ84o618
> =g54V
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Robert Heller
In reply to this post by Oliver Grawert
At Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:52:01 +0200 "Ubuntu user technical support,  not for general discussions" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> hi,
> Am Samstag, den 25.08.2018, 08:30 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:
> > 
> > > confirming the first dialog initializes the report *collection*.
> > > the
> > > second one allows you to inspect contents and to confirm/deny the
> > > sending of the data.
> > I'm not seeing this.
>
> First dialog:
>
> https://imgur.com/a/eTcVV1R
OK, it is taking like forever to download the image.  I'm guessing imgur.com
needs to download 5meg of JavaScript and advertising before it actually
downloads the image.  Not real usable under dialup.

Is there some way to get the system to just display an error message?

>
> (click "Report problem" here ... that starts the collection ...)
>
> Second dialog:
>
> https://imgur.com/a/YKf8GWi
>
> (uncheck the "send" checkbox and click the "Show details" button to see
> info about the app that crashed ...)
>
> ciao
> oli
>
> Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iEYEABEKAAYFAluBUPEACgkQSsOT+6LQaTYB2QCgz75oVx9CHpyr65C3d0BeHXze
> 6GYAn2MOqr+FLrD6KzhttHD2HQ84o618
> =g54V
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Colin Law
In reply to this post by Oliver Grawert
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 13:54, Oliver Grawert <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> hi,
> Am Samstag, den 25.08.2018, 08:30 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:
> >
> > > confirming the first dialog initializes the report *collection*.
> > > the
> > > second one allows you to inspect contents and to confirm/deny the
> > > sending of the data.
> > I'm not seeing this.
>
> First dialog:
>
> https://imgur.com/a/eTcVV1R
>
> (click "Report problem" here ... that starts the collection ...)
>
> Second dialog:
>
> https://imgur.com/a/YKf8GWi
>
> (uncheck the "send" checkbox and click the "Show details" button to see
> info about the app that crashed ...)

Has this possibly changed since 14.04?

Colin

>
> ciao
>         oli
>
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Re: "The system detected a problem, do you want to report it?" dialog

Oliver Grawert
In reply to this post by Robert Heller
hi,
Am Samstag, den 25.08.2018, 09:30 -0400 schrieb Robert Heller:

> Is there some way to get the system to just display an error message?

you could indeed monitor you logs instead ... 

the two fold setup of the dislogs is there for a reason, the first
dialog only intercepts signals from applications, it does not do
anything else (capturing apps that receive SIGILL, SIGBRT, SIGFPE,
SIGSEV, SIGPIPE and SIGBUS)... it does not do anything else than that
and collecting the respective PID for the crashed process. 

only clicking the "Report problem" button does actually start any data
capturing/collecting for the given PID then which is why they do not
work separately (without a crash signal and PID the second part of the
tool cant really collect anything).

If you say you dont get the second dialog at all ... are you running a
default ubuntu kernel ? IIRC there are some config options and defaults
that are needed for proper error reporting to work at all
(/proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern comes to mind here), a non-standard
kernel might not have all needed bits enabled ...

if you cant find anything in the logs, also, take a look at /var/crash
if there is anything in it ...

ciao
        oli
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