sound control on 18.04

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sound control on 18.04

Gary J. Kirkpatrick

I upgraded to 18.04 from 16.04 yesterday.

I notice that when you click on the sound icon you can not choose the sound source without opening 'Settings.'  This is when I login using the standard Ubuntu option.  

I have looked for hours for a way modify this applet (if that is what it is called).  I have not found one.

Along the same lines you can not access rhythm box and VLC from that 'applet.'  In Unity these were conveniently located at this spot.

Perhaps this is no longer possible.  Any thoughts on the matter?

thanks


garyk


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Re: sound control on 18.04

Petter Adsen-2
On 08. sep. 2018 10:01, Gary J. Kirkpatrick wrote:

>
> I upgraded to 18.04 from 16.04 yesterday.
>
> I notice that when you click on the sound icon you can not choose the
> sound source without opening 'Settings.'  This is when I login using the
> standard Ubuntu option.  
>
> I have looked for hours for a way modify this applet (if that is what it
> is called).  I have not found one.
>
> Along the same lines you can not access rhythm box and VLC from that
> 'applet.'  In Unity these were conveniently located at this spot.
>
> Perhaps this is no longer possible.  Any thoughts on the matter?

I'm not sure if tray applets work any longer under GNOME, but you can
try pasystray. It lets you switch sources/sinks etc from a menu in the
systray. It's in the repos.

Petter

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Re: sound control on 18.04

Gary J. Kirkpatrick


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 12:13 PM Petter Adsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 08. sep. 2018 10:01, Gary J. Kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> I upgraded to 18.04 from 16.04 yesterday.
>
> I notice that when you click on the sound icon you can not choose the
> sound source without opening 'Settings.'  This is when I login using the
> standard Ubuntu option.  
>
> I have looked for hours for a way modify this applet (if that is what it
> is called).  I have not found one.
>
> Along the same lines you can not access rhythm box and VLC from that
> 'applet.'  In Unity these were conveniently located at this spot.
>
> Perhaps this is no longer possible.  Any thoughts on the matter?

I'm not sure if tray applets work any longer under GNOME, but you can
try pasystray. It lets you switch sources/sinks etc from a menu in the
systray. It's in the repos.

Petter

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Thanks for the reply.  Pasystray does not seem to do what I want it to do.  For ex, I just activated my bluetooth earbuds.  I have to select them in order for them to work (despite having them selected under Pulseaudio).  I still have to open system settings to get to where I can choose them over the built in speakers.  Pasystray does not offer a good option for doing this.  Unity does even under 18.04 so I can stay with Unity, at least for a while.


garyk

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Re: sound control on 18.04

Oliver Grawert
In reply to this post by Gary J. Kirkpatrick
hi,
Am Samstag, den 08.09.2018, 10:01 +0200 schrieb Gary J. Kirkpatrick:

>
> I upgraded to 18.04 from 16.04 yesterday.
>
> I notice that when you click on the sound icon you can not choose the
> sound source without opening 'Settings.'  This is when I login using
> the standard Ubuntu option.  
>
> I have looked for hours for a way modify this applet (if that is what
> it is called).  I have not found one.
>
> Along the same lines you can not access rhythm box and VLC from that
> 'applet.'  In Unity these were conveniently located at this spot.
>
> Perhaps this is no longer possible.  Any thoughts on the matter?
this is GNOME vs unity7 and (sadly) normal design... 

in gnome only very few things work directly through the indicators and
typically take you to an app to set things...

there might be extensions that allow you to make gnome behave the way
you want though, i'd take a look at http://extensions.gnome.org/

ciao
        oli
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Re: sound control on 18.04

Liam Proven
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 13:14, Oliver Grawert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> this is GNOME vs unity7 and (sadly) normal design...
>
> in gnome only very few things work directly through the indicators and
> typically take you to an app to set things...
>
> there might be extensions that allow you to make gnome behave the way
> you want though, i'd take a look at http://extensions.gnome.org/

What Oliver said. :-(

If I must use GNOME I use tools like Extend Panel Menu:

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1201/extend-panel-menu/

... to give me more functional volume/system/etc. controls.

I wrote about this and some other tools I find useful here:

https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/57630.html

But also see:

Why I don't use GNOME Shell
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/52807.html

Unfortunately, the developers of GNOME are attempting to simplify it
by _removing_ features. I think this is a doomed, futile approach:

On GNOME 3 and design simplicity
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/58328.html

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Re: sound control on 18.04

Gary J. Kirkpatrick


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 2:00 PM Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 13:14, Oliver Grawert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> this is GNOME vs unity7 and (sadly) normal design...
>
> in gnome only very few things work directly through the indicators and
> typically take you to an app to set things...
>
> there might be extensions that allow you to make gnome behave the way
> you want though, i'd take a look at http://extensions.gnome.org/

What Oliver said. :-(

If I must use GNOME I use tools like Extend Panel Menu:

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1201/extend-panel-menu/

... to give me more functional volume/system/etc. controls.

I wrote about this and some other tools I find useful here:

https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/57630.html

But also see:

Why I don't use GNOME Shell
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/52807.html

Unfortunately, the developers of GNOME are attempting to simplify it
by _removing_ features. I think this is a doomed, futile approach:

On GNOME 3 and design simplicity
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/58328.html

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I tried the Extend Panel.  Unless there is a way to add to it, it's not useful.  Sounds like you are right about Gnome 3.  

Thanks 

garyk
 




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Re: sound control on 18.04

Oliver Grawert
hi,

Am Montag, den 10.09.2018, 13:38 +0200 schrieb Gary J. Kirkpatrick:
> I tried the Extend Panel.  Unless there is a way to add to it, it's
> not useful.  Sounds like you are right about Gnome 3. 

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/906/sound-output-device-chooser/

might rather be what you want ... 

ciao
        oli
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Re: sound control on 18.04

Gary J. Kirkpatrick
In reply to this post by Gary J. Kirkpatrick


On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 1:38 PM Gary J. Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 2:00 PM Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 13:14, Oliver Grawert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> this is GNOME vs unity7 and (sadly) normal design...
>
> in gnome only very few things work directly through the indicators and
> typically take you to an app to set things...
>
> there might be extensions that allow you to make gnome behave the way
> you want though, i'd take a look at http://extensions.gnome.org/

What Oliver said. :-(

If I must use GNOME I use tools like Extend Panel Menu:

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1201/extend-panel-menu/

... to give me more functional volume/system/etc. controls.

I wrote about this and some other tools I find useful here:

https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/57630.html

But also see:

Why I don't use GNOME Shell
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/52807.html

Unfortunately, the developers of GNOME are attempting to simplify it
by _removing_ features. I think this is a doomed, futile approach:

On GNOME 3 and design simplicity
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/58328.html

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I tried the Extend Panel.  Unless there is a way to add to it, it's not useful.  Sounds like you are right about Gnome 3.  

Thanks 

garyk
 




Topicons shows promise.  weather shows without my having to click on anything, as well as core temps, drobox, pcloud.  Volume control still does not get me directly to sound source choice, nor the direct connection to rhythm box and VLC.   Minor issues in the scheme of things, of course.  


garyk
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Re: sound control on 18.04

Gary J. Kirkpatrick


On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 1:50 PM Gary J. Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 1:38 PM Gary J. Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 2:00 PM Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 at 13:14, Oliver Grawert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> this is GNOME vs unity7 and (sadly) normal design...
>
> in gnome only very few things work directly through the indicators and
> typically take you to an app to set things...
>
> there might be extensions that allow you to make gnome behave the way
> you want though, i'd take a look at http://extensions.gnome.org/

What Oliver said. :-(

If I must use GNOME I use tools like Extend Panel Menu:

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1201/extend-panel-menu/

... to give me more functional volume/system/etc. controls.

I wrote about this and some other tools I find useful here:

https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/57630.html

But also see:

Why I don't use GNOME Shell
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/52807.html

Unfortunately, the developers of GNOME are attempting to simplify it
by _removing_ features. I think this is a doomed, futile approach:

On GNOME 3 and design simplicity
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/58328.html

--
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I tried the Extend Panel.  Unless there is a way to add to it, it's not useful.  Sounds like you are right about Gnome 3.  

Thanks 

garyk
 




Topicons shows promise.  weather shows without my having to click on anything, as well as core temps, drobox, pcloud.  Volume control still does not get me directly to sound source choice, nor the direct connection to rhythm box and VLC.   Minor issues in the scheme of things, of course.  


garyk
--

Added the sound output device chooser, which works about as I would like.  However once I added it the toppanel stopped working.  I removed the sound device chooser and reinstalled topicons but no luck.  The topicons are more useful.

thanks

garyk
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Re: sound control on 18.04

Liam Proven
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 14:10, Gary J. Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Added the sound output device chooser, which works about as I would like.  However once I added it the toppanel stopped working.

I hope you will forgive me, but when I read this line, I laughed. :-(

> I removed the sound device chooser and reinstalled topicons but no luck.  The topicons are more useful.

This is an important aspect of the whole GNOME 3 issue. They are
removing stuff that real live, active users *need* and will not
negotiate this.

Much of it you can put back with extensions, but extensions can clash
or disable one another -- and when you get a version update to GNOME,
random extensions stop working, or clash in new ways, in my personal
experience leaving you with a machine you can no longer log into or
where you can log in but don't get a working desktop.

This is, to me, unacceptable and it's why I won't use it. It is not
good enough if functionality can be put back with extensions if that
method is unstable and won't survive upgrades.

The GNOME developers removed additional icon support a few versions
ago. Most recently they removed desktop icon support, too. (!) They
removed multiple panes from Nautilus.

They don't support menus in the top panel.

They don't support user-customisable toolbars in apps. They don't
support true app menu bars or title bars. (I.e. in GNOME apps.)

They don't support many things I use daily.

I suspect that basically they remove support for anything _they_ don't
use, and in fact, many of them are fairly new to desktop *nix and they
simply don't know about a lot of features, so when they find support
in the code, they remove them, considering them to be obsolete junk.

They removed so many things in the pursuit of simplicity, but GNOME is
still one of the biggest, most complex, resource-hungry desktops, in
part because of extensive use of indirection layers and additional
toolkits. It renders via OpenGL so it works poorly in VMs or machines
without hardware 3D (or as is more likely on Linux, without working 3D
*drivers*).

It doesn't give me anything I want or need. It looks nice, but I find
it hard to use and poor in functionality.

Cinnamon -- a fork of GNOME 3 -- looks just as nice and works better,
if in the boring old Windows-95-style. And it doesn't support a
vertical taskbar, which is something I very strongly want.

Maté -- the fork of GNOME 2 -- does everything Cinnamon does, in a
more flexible way, using fewer resources. Which makes one ask: if a
fork of the old codebase has yielded a more flexible, customisable
desktop, then why bother with the version change and all these years
of upset?

And yet Maté _also_ can't do a vertical taskbar.

So I've switched to an even older, simpler, lower-resource desktop: Xfce.

It does vertical taskbars just fine, doesn't need 3D, doesn't need
OpenGL, works great in VMs, looks smart, and uses less RAM and disk
than any of the competition except LXDE, which is end-of-life.

We have lots of desktops, but most of them just reproduce 80% of the
same shared functionality. That's not diversity. That's just
repetition.

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Re: sound control on 18.04

Gary J. Kirkpatrick


On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 2:54 PM Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 14:10, Gary J. Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Added the sound output device chooser, which works about as I would like.  However once I added it the toppanel stopped working.

I hope you will forgive me, but when I read this line, I laughed. :-(

> I removed the sound device chooser and reinstalled topicons but no luck.  The topicons are more useful.

This is an important aspect of the whole GNOME 3 issue. They are
removing stuff that real live, active users *need* and will not
negotiate this.

Much of it you can put back with extensions, but extensions can clash
or disable one another -- and when you get a version update to GNOME,
random extensions stop working, or clash in new ways, in my personal
experience leaving you with a machine you can no longer log into or
where you can log in but don't get a working desktop.

This is, to me, unacceptable and it's why I won't use it. It is not
good enough if functionality can be put back with extensions if that
method is unstable and won't survive upgrades.

The GNOME developers removed additional icon support a few versions
ago. Most recently they removed desktop icon support, too. (!) They
removed multiple panes from Nautilus.

They don't support menus in the top panel.

They don't support user-customisable toolbars in apps. They don't
support true app menu bars or title bars. (I.e. in GNOME apps.)

They don't support many things I use daily.

I suspect that basically they remove support for anything _they_ don't
use, and in fact, many of them are fairly new to desktop *nix and they
simply don't know about a lot of features, so when they find support
in the code, they remove them, considering them to be obsolete junk.

They removed so many things in the pursuit of simplicity, but GNOME is
still one of the biggest, most complex, resource-hungry desktops, in
part because of extensive use of indirection layers and additional
toolkits. It renders via OpenGL so it works poorly in VMs or machines
without hardware 3D (or as is more likely on Linux, without working 3D
*drivers*).

It doesn't give me anything I want or need. It looks nice, but I find
it hard to use and poor in functionality.

Cinnamon -- a fork of GNOME 3 -- looks just as nice and works better,
if in the boring old Windows-95-style. And it doesn't support a
vertical taskbar, which is something I very strongly want.

Maté -- the fork of GNOME 2 -- does everything Cinnamon does, in a
more flexible way, using fewer resources. Which makes one ask: if a
fork of the old codebase has yielded a more flexible, customisable
desktop, then why bother with the version change and all these years
of upset?

And yet Maté _also_ can't do a vertical taskbar.

So I've switched to an even older, simpler, lower-resource desktop: Xfce.

It does vertical taskbars just fine, doesn't need 3D, doesn't need
OpenGL, works great in VMs, looks smart, and uses less RAM and disk
than any of the competition except LXDE, which is end-of-life.

We have lots of desktops, but most of them just reproduce 80% of the
same shared functionality. That's not diversity. That's just
repetition.

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well, I still have Unity in 18.04.  I have used several flavors of Ubuntu, EasyPeasy even (for a machine too slow for Ubuntu and I can always go back to one of those.  In the meantime I'll probably stico to Unity, although Wayland works a bit better than the current standard.

gary k



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Re: sound control on 18.04

Oliver Grawert
hi,
Am Montag, den 10.09.2018, 15:05 +0200 schrieb Gary J. Kirkpatrick:
> well, I still have Unity in 18.04.  I have used several flavors of
> Ubuntu, EasyPeasy even (for a machine too slow for Ubuntu and I can
> always go back to one of those.  In the meantime I'll probably stico
> to Unity, although Wayland works a bit better than the current
> standard.

if you really like unity and look for low-end HW support but still want
to use the latest ubuntu underneath, you should take a look at ubuntu-
mate and the Mutiny plugin that it ships by default ...

it gives you the full unity7 experience but uses mate underneath ...

ciao
        oli
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Re: sound control on 18.04

Liam Proven
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 15:53, Oliver Grawert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> if you really like unity and look for low-end HW support but still want
> to use the latest ubuntu underneath, you should take a look at ubuntu-
> mate and the Mutiny plugin that it ships by default ...
>
> it gives you the full unity7 experience but uses mate underneath ...

It's very skin-deep though. As in, it's purely a superficial, cosmetic
resemblance. There are no "Scopes" (not that I used them often), no
full-screen app browser, I think no HUD (not that I _ever_ used that),
etc.

For me one of the wins of Unity was that it was efficient on widescreens:
[1] the app launcher/switcher was nice and big and easily visible, and
on the left, using "cheap" horizontal pixels
[2] the top panel also housed the menu bar, so saving a whole screen text-row.

MATE's "Unity" theme does deliver these 2, it's true, but it feels
like a skin to me.

GNOME 3 fails badly on point #2: the top panel is mandatory, mostly
empty, and mostly useless -- they're even trying to remove most of the
icons and functionality from it.

MATE and Cinnamon fail on point #1 - they have mandatory horizontal
app-switchers, wasting space, and which don't work vertically. You
still need a top panel _as well_.

If a desktop is going to impose a taskbar on me, I want it vertical,
so I can get rid of the top/bottom panel(s) and reclaim the space. I
don't own any devices with 4:3 ratio screens any more. Everything has
a widescreen.

Unfortunately, in MATE, you *need* that top panel, because the other
panel items don't work in the left panel.

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Re: sound control on 18.04

MR ZenWiz
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 5:52 AM, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So I've switched to an even older, simpler, lower-resource desktop: Xfce.
>
+1 and more.

I've been using Xubuntu since 12.04 and never looked back.  It does
everything I want and more, and almost all the features I use have
carried froward since then, with enhancements.

I use it on my home desktop, my personal laptop, in a VM at work and
my partner finally gave up her fears of leaving Windows and has been
happy (with my support at least) ever since.

Cheers.

MR

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Re: sound control on 18.04

Liam Proven
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 23:11, MR ZenWiz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 and more.
>
> I've been using Xubuntu since 12.04 and never looked back.  It does
> everything I want and more, and almost all the features I use have
> carried froward since then, with enhancements.
>
> I use it on my home desktop, my personal laptop, in a VM at work and
> my partner finally gave up her fears of leaving Windows and has been
> happy (with my support at least) ever since.

Yup. I think I will have to switch my home machines, too.

Is there any way to convert an Ubuntu 16.04 install into one of
Xubuntu 16.04, so I don't get GNOME when I upgrade it?


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Re: sound control on 18.04

Gary J. Kirkpatrick


On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 10:30 AM Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 23:11, MR ZenWiz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 and more.
>
> I've been using Xubuntu since 12.04 and never looked back.  It does
> everything I want and more, and almost all the features I use have
> carried froward since then, with enhancements.
>
> I use it on my home desktop, my personal laptop, in a VM at work and
> my partner finally gave up her fears of leaving Windows and has been
> happy (with my support at least) ever since.

Yup. I think I will have to switch my home machines, too.

Is there any way to convert an Ubuntu 16.04 install into one of
Xubuntu 16.04, so I don't get GNOME when I upgrade it?


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I like bells and whistles, so Xubuntu and others of the ilk I reserve for older machines.  They work quite well though.  

garyk



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Re: sound control on 18.04

MR ZenWiz
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 1:28 AM, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yup. I think I will have to switch my home machines, too.
>
> Is there any way to convert an Ubuntu 16.04 install into one of
> Xubuntu 16.04, so I don't get GNOME when I upgrade it?
>
Can't help you there - I only did a release upgrade once and that was
enough.  Now I always install cold from the distro DVD.  Faster and
cleaner.

For each of 16.04 and 18.04, I bought a new 240+GB SSD, installed it
in as the boot disk and dropped the OS on that drive.  It's fast, and
easily replaced.  And I have a built-in backup should I need for some
reason to go back to 16.04.  Probably - see below.

However, I have /home on another drive, and that has its fun when a
new release doesn't like my old configuration.  I forgot about that
(happened with 14.04->16.04), so I had to battle with it again this
time briefly.   Hopefully I'll remember next time and get it right, up
front.

HTH.
MR

aka:

Mark Richter
Senior Staff Engineer, Solarflare Communications, Inc.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/markrichter1
FSF Member #12694 http://www.fsf.org
Registered Linux User #472807 http://counter.li.org/

(I used to think I had someone about whom to be concerned when using
my real name, but I've recently realized that's just silly, so that's
who I am.)

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Re: sound control on 18.04

Mark Frank
In reply to this post by Liam Proven


On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 23:11, MR ZenWiz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is there any way to convert an Ubuntu 16.04 install into one of
Xubuntu 16.04, so I don't get GNOME when I upgrade it?


I used the instructions on this site to go from  Ubuntu 16.04 to Xubuntu 16.04.  The current situation on my laptop is a clean install of  Xubuntu 18.04 but the tutorial below should probably be instructive.


Mark


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Re: sound control on 18.04

Liam Proven
On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 at 02:00, Mark Frank <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I used the instructions on this site to go from  Ubuntu 16.04 to Xubuntu 16.04.  The current situation on my laptop is a clean install of  Xubuntu 18.04 but the tutorial below should probably be instructive.
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/alternative

Thank you!

Sounds like you do get a lot of GNOME anyway, though, from the
instructions on how to remove it again afterwards...

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Re: sound control on 18.04

Mark Frank


On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 3:38 AM, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you!

Sounds like you do get a lot of GNOME anyway, though, from the
instructions on how to remove it again afterwards...

 Which is why I went with a clean install of  Xubuntu when I moved to 18.04.


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