ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

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ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Jeremy Bicha-2
Hi,

I'm sure you've heard that Ubuntu will be switching its default
interface from Unity to GNOME. The Ubuntu Desktop's team aims to have
a basic gnome-shell session in place before Ubuntu 17.10 "Artful"
Alpha 2 which is currently scheduled for late July. [1]

Mark Shuttleworth's vision is for Ubuntu to ship GNOME with minimal
customization but it's not clear what that will look like exactly yet.

On first login, Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 and 17.04 uses GNOME's Initial
Setup tool which asks a few setup questions and then displays the
GNOME help. It's an interesting idea so maybe Ubuntu will keep it.

For 17.10, especially for the Alphas, I'd like to propose that we
replace ubuntu-docs with gnome-user-docs in main and only install
gnome-user-docs by default. That still allows several months to
customize the help if desired before 18.04 LTS.

What do you think of this proposal?

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule

Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha

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RE: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Doug Smythies
On 2017.04.21 21:02 Jeremy Bicha wrote:
>
> I'm sure you've heard that Ubuntu will be switching its default
> interface from Unity to GNOME. The Ubuntu Desktop's team aims to have
> a basic gnome-shell session in place before Ubuntu 17.10 "Artful"
> Alpha 2 which is currently scheduled for late July. [1]

I do not understand. There has always been a GNOME option,
So why would it be any different now? Wouldn't that just
become the main login option?

I have GNOME as a login option on my 17.04 desktop (VM), although
today it doesn't seem to behave the way I recall.

I am used to some grey type theme with droplets of water that
look like a foot print. Today, that isn't what I am getting. I seem
to now get some Ubuntu looking desktop.

I have these options:

GNOME; GNOME Classic; GNOME on Wayland; Ubuntu (default); Unity8

Where I can not tell the difference between GNOME and GNOME Classic,
and GNOME on Wayland doesn't work.
 

>
> Mark Shuttleworth's vision is for Ubuntu to ship GNOME with minimal
> customization but it's not clear what that will look like exactly yet.
>
> On first login, Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 and 17.04 uses GNOME's Initial
> Setup tool which asks a few setup questions and then displays the
> GNOME help. It's an interesting idea so maybe Ubuntu will keep it.
>
> For 17.10, especially for the Alphas, I'd like to propose that we
> replace ubuntu-docs with gnome-user-docs in main and only install
> gnome-user-docs by default. That still allows several months to
> customize the help if desired before 18.04 LTS.
>
> What do you think of this proposal?

Well, yes. I don't see another path for proceeding.
But why customize the gnome-user-docs at all?
Why not set the objective of using them as is?

>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule




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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Jeremy Bicha-2
On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Doug Smythies <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am used to some grey type theme with droplets of water that
> look like a foot print. Today, that isn't what I am getting. I seem
> to now get some Ubuntu looking desktop.

Yes, the default Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 wallpaper is a blue pattern, not a
wet grey foot any more. But it also depends on how you installed
GNOME.

> I have these options:
>
> GNOME; GNOME Classic; GNOME on Wayland; Ubuntu (default); Unity8
>
> Where I can not tell the difference between GNOME and GNOME Classic,
> and GNOME on Wayland doesn't work.

GNOME Classic looks quite a bit different than GNOME; GNOME Classic is
made to look more like GNOME 2. GNOME on Wayland currently doesn't
work with lightdm (LP: #1632772) but Ubuntu GNOME uses gdm3 by
default.

It's probably easiest to just install Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 in your VM
instead of trying to add GNOME to your Ubuntu 17.04 install. Of
course, 17.10 will be a bit different…

> But why customize the gnome-user-docs at all?
> Why not set the objective of using them as is?

Yes, there are advantages to doing that.

Thank you,
Jeremy

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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Alberto Salvia Novella
In reply to this post by Jeremy Bicha-2
Jeremy Bicha:
 > I'd like to propose that we replace ubuntu-docs with gnome-user-docs
 > in main and only install gnome-user-docs by default.

Since the main purpose of using GNOME is unifying infrastructure, that
decision seems the obvious one to me.


Jeremy Bicha:
 > I'm sure you've heard that Ubuntu will be switching its default
 > interface from Unity to GNOME.

I feel the GNOME desktop environment is badly designed. Its approach to
minimalism is too extreme, and this is said by someone who only owns two
sets of clothing and a pair of shoes.

Moreover its unstable, it continually breaks things without fixing them.
It has the culture of accumulating bugs, and saying that's agile
development.

It isn't agile development. Agile development is just the opposite:
changing things one by one and testing immediately, so there's as little
rework as possible.

You are better re-factoring Unity 8 to work on Wayland, and making it
easy to deploy in any Linux distribution. The root problem isn't that
the product is bad on itself, but basically that you are cooking your
own food.

You aren't failing on the technology, but on the basics. Understanding
that decisions should be versatile, easy to change, platform neutral,
and long lasting.




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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Gunnar Hjalmarsson
In reply to this post by Jeremy Bicha-2
Hi Jeremy!

On 2017-04-22 06:02, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> On first login, Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 and 17.04 uses GNOME's Initial
> Setup tool which asks a few setup questions and then displays the
> GNOME help. It's an interesting idea so maybe Ubuntu will keep it.

Yeah, it's interesting, and a better approach IMHO than the current
keyboard shortcuts thing.

> For 17.10, especially for the Alphas, I'd like to propose that we
> replace ubuntu-docs with gnome-user-docs in main and only install
> gnome-user-docs by default.

To me that seems as an obvious step to take.

> That still allows several months to customize the help if desired
> before 18.04 LTS.

This is very early in the transition process, but under the assumption
that there will be visible differences between Ubuntu and Fedora, I
think it's highly desirable to keep a door open for Ubuntu
customization. To some extent, and as you pointed out on IRC the other
week, some customization is achievable through conditionals in the
upstream Mallard pages, but we may want to have the option to add Ubuntu
specific pages as well.

One aspect of customization is the branding. Up to now we have published
the HTML version of ubuntu-docs at <https://help.ubuntu.com>. Even if
the desktop docs will be much closer to GNOME Help going forward, it may
be motivated to build a HTML version of it with the Ubuntu theme and
keep publishing it at <https://help.ubuntu.com>.

Another thing comes to mind: The translated ubuntu-docs pages have been
stripped at build time and made available to the users via the
language-pack-gnome-XX-base packages. That has made it almost impossible
to make content adjustments of the desktop guide for stable releases.
Even if the package will be moved to main now, it would be desirable IMO
to not make use of the language packs for gnome-user-docs, but let
gnome-user-guide keep providing both the English and the translated
pages. The ISO won't fit on a CD anyway...

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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Chris Perry-2
Gunnar wrote: "That has made it almost impossible to make content
adjustments of the [Ubuntu] desktop guide for stable releases".

I think this is an important point. Because content adjustments were
almost impossible it meant that each release was stuck with desktop
help that had to be completed while the release was still in beta. (Eg
we couldn't update the 16.04 LTS desktop help to correct errors.) In
my opinion this pretty much guarantees that the quality of the desktop
help (for a given release) won't be very good. So yes making it
possible to make content adjustments to the desktop help (for a given
release) would be a big improvement (in fact I'd say it's essential
for good-quality help, assuming Ubuntu continues to provide Long Term
Support (LTS) releases).

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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Hannie Dumoleyn
In reply to this post by Jeremy Bicha-2
I have just upgraded from 16.10 to 17.04. On startup I can choose
between Ubuntu (standard) or Unity8. Is this "Ubuntu (standard)" Unity
7. Is it different from Ubuntu 17.04 Gnome,
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuGNOME?
Hannie

Op 22-04-17 om 06:02 schreef Jeremy Bicha:

> Hi,
>
> I'm sure you've heard that Ubuntu will be switching its default
> interface from Unity to GNOME. The Ubuntu Desktop's team aims to have
> a basic gnome-shell session in place before Ubuntu 17.10 "Artful"
> Alpha 2 which is currently scheduled for late July. [1]
>
> Mark Shuttleworth's vision is for Ubuntu to ship GNOME with minimal
> customization but it's not clear what that will look like exactly yet.
>
> On first login, Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 and 17.04 uses GNOME's Initial
> Setup tool which asks a few setup questions and then displays the
> GNOME help. It's an interesting idea so maybe Ubuntu will keep it.
>
> For 17.10, especially for the Alphas, I'd like to propose that we
> replace ubuntu-docs with gnome-user-docs in main and only install
> gnome-user-docs by default. That still allows several months to
> customize the help if desired before 18.04 LTS.
>
> What do you think of this proposal?
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Bicha
>


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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Jeremy Bicha-2
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 6:18 AM, Hannie Dumoleyn
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have just upgraded from 16.10 to 17.04. On startup I can choose between
> Ubuntu (standard) or Unity8. Is this "Ubuntu (standard)" Unity 7. Is it
> different from Ubuntu 17.04 Gnome,

The "Ubuntu" session in 17.04 is the same Unity 7 that we've been
using for years.

The switch to GNOME is happening during the 17.10 cycle.

Jeremy Bicha

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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Alberto Salvia Novella
In reply to this post by Hannie Dumoleyn
Hannie Dumoleyn:
> Is it different from Ubuntu 17.04 Gnome?

What's different? 😮




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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Hannie Dumoleyn
Op 25-04-17 om 15:34 schreef Alberto Salvia Novella:
> Hannie Dumoleyn:
>> Is it different from Ubuntu 17.04 Gnome?
>
> What's different? 😮
>
>
>
What I would like to know is this: in Unity 7, most of the applications
are Gnome (Files, Network Manager, gedit, Deja Vu, Disks, Ubuntu
Software, you name it). So what will change when Ubuntu goes from Unity
7 to Ubuntu Gnome?



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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Alberto Salvia Novella
Hannie Dumoleyn:
> So what will change when Ubuntu goes from Unity 7 to Ubuntu Gnome?

Basically you will have the very same applications, just the default
GNOME desktop. At least that's what Mark Shuttleworth said, that will
keep the default look and feel.




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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Gunnar Hjalmarsson
In reply to this post by Hannie Dumoleyn
On 2017-04-25 17:37, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote:
> What I would like to know is this: in Unity 7, most of the
> applications are Gnome (Files, Network Manager, gedit, Deja Vu,
> Disks, Ubuntu Software, you name it). So what will change when Ubuntu
> goes from Unity 7 to Ubuntu Gnome?

Menus, the way you find and launch applications, the interface for
changing the settings are examples of things which will be different.
The best way to get an idea is to put Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 on an
installation media and take a look.

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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

Hannie Dumoleyn
In reply to this post by Jeremy Bicha-2
Op 22-04-17 om 06:02 schreef Jeremy Bicha:

> Hi,
>
> I'm sure you've heard that Ubuntu will be switching its default
> interface from Unity to GNOME. The Ubuntu Desktop's team aims to have
> a basic gnome-shell session in place before Ubuntu 17.10 "Artful"
> Alpha 2 which is currently scheduled for late July. [1]
>
> Mark Shuttleworth's vision is for Ubuntu to ship GNOME with minimal
> customization but it's not clear what that will look like exactly yet.
>
> On first login, Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 and 17.04 uses GNOME's Initial
> Setup tool which asks a few setup questions and then displays the
> GNOME help. It's an interesting idea so maybe Ubuntu will keep it.
>
> For 17.10, especially for the Alphas, I'd like to propose that we
> replace ubuntu-docs with gnome-user-docs in main and only install
> gnome-user-docs by default. That still allows several months to
> customize the help if desired before 18.04 LTS.
>
> What do you think of this proposal?
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Bicha
>
Hi Jeremy,

Does your proposal mean that, instead of using ubuntu-docs, we are going
to use Gnome Help, https://l10n.gnome.org/module/gnome-user-docs/#master

Hannie



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