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unresponsive screen graphics

rikona
Running Ubuntu 16.04 with a number of problems we've discussed on this
list, and unfortunately seem to recur after certain updates. Some
seemed rather mysterious to the list folks so I won't go through those
again. I do run a number of KDE programs, and a few from other
desktops, but no other full desktop is installed.

One hopefully minor problem is that I have several graphics on my
screen that I can't seem to get rid of. They look exactly like icons
that have been on the screen before, but are completely unresponsive
and not listed in the desktop directory. Changing the background
picture on the desktop does not get rid of these graphics - they
appear in the same place in the new background picture. I'd like to
figure out how they are generated and where they are stored and thus
get a handle on how to get rid of them. Any pointers would be much
appreciated.

Thanks,

 rikona


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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

Colin Law
On 27 January 2017 at 06:06, rikona <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Running Ubuntu 16.04 with a number of problems we've discussed on this
> list, and unfortunately seem to recur after certain updates. Some
> seemed rather mysterious to the list folks so I won't go through those
> again. I do run a number of KDE programs, and a few from other
> desktops, but no other full desktop is installed.
>
> One hopefully minor problem is that I have several graphics on my
> screen that I can't seem to get rid of. They look exactly like icons
> that have been on the screen before, but are completely unresponsive
> and not listed in the desktop directory. Changing the background
> picture on the desktop does not get rid of these graphics - they
> appear in the same place in the new background picture. I'd like to
> figure out how they are generated and where they are stored and thus
> get a handle on how to get rid of them. Any pointers would be much
> appreciated.

Have a look in your Desktop folder and see if you see them there. If
so and you no longer need them then you can delete them.
Not surprisingly the contents of the Desktop folder are visible on the desktop.
I would have expected you to be able to delete them by selecting and
hitting delete on the desktop itself.

Colin

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

Ralf Mardorf-2
Could it be an autostarted or dbus started daemonized dolphin or
something similar KDE related that grabs the desktop, or at least
grabs some desktop features, competing with the default DE? Ubuntu
packages autostart everything that could be autostarted, so apart from
usual issues, that could happen after installing competing apps, Ubuntus
very bad package policy, easily could cause additional issues.


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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

rikona
In reply to this post by Colin Law
Hello Colin,

Friday, January 27, 2017, 12:25:04 AM, Colin wrote:

> On 27 January 2017 at 06:06, rikona <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Running Ubuntu 16.04 with a number of problems we've discussed on this
>> list, and unfortunately seem to recur after certain updates. Some
>> seemed rather mysterious to the list folks so I won't go through those
>> again. I do run a number of KDE programs, and a few from other
>> desktops, but no other full desktop is installed.
>>
>> One hopefully minor problem is that I have several graphics on my
>> screen that I can't seem to get rid of. They look exactly like icons
>> that have been on the screen before, but are completely unresponsive
>> and not listed in the desktop directory. Changing the background
>> picture on the desktop does not get rid of these graphics - they
>> appear in the same place in the new background picture. I'd like to
>> figure out how they are generated and where they are stored and thus
>> get a handle on how to get rid of them. Any pointers would be much
>> appreciated.

> Have a look in your Desktop folder and see if you see them there.

As I said above, it is not there.

> If so and you no longer need them then you can delete them. Not
> surprisingly the contents of the Desktop folder are visible on the
> desktop. I would have expected you to be able to delete them by
> selecting and hitting delete on the desktop itself.

Of course, obviously so - but what if they are not there - or anywhere
else I can see, except on the screen :-) ?

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

rikona
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
Hello Ralf,

Friday, January 27, 2017, 1:26:13 AM, Ralf wrote:

> Could it be an autostarted or dbus started daemonized dolphin or
> something similar KDE related that grabs the desktop, or at least
> grabs some desktop features, competing with the default DE?

That was my thinking too, but had no idea what might be doing that, or
where the 'instructions' to place those graphics are stored.

> Ubuntu packages autostart everything that could be autostarted, so
> apart from usual issues, that could happen after installing
> competing apps, Ubuntus very bad package policy, easily could cause
> additional issues.

Unfortunately I'm all too familiar with a number of those 'additional
issues' :-) [but :-(( is more appropriate].

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by rikona
On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 18:09 -0800, rikona wrote:
> Of course, obviously so - but what if they are not there - or
> anywhere else I can see, except on the screen :-) ?

Coming late to this, so sorry if you've already answered this: Do these
artifacts survive logging out and back in? If yes, do they survive
rebooting the system?

Regards, K.

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

rikona
Hello Karl,

Friday, January 27, 2017, 6:27:32 PM, Karl wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 18:09 -0800, rikona wrote:
>> Of course, obviously so - but what if they are not there - or
>> anywhere else I can see, except on the screen :-) ?

> Coming late to this, so sorry if you've already answered this: Do
> these artifacts survive logging out and back in? If yes, do they
> survive rebooting the system?

Yep - restart after update - still there...

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

Karl Auer
On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 20:01 -0800, rikona wrote:
> Yep - restart after update - still there...

I say you should take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the
only way to be sure...

Regards, K.

PS: A restart is not the same as a reboot. Have you power cycled the
system?

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

rikona
Hello Karl,

Friday, January 27, 2017, 8:28:49 PM, Karl wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 20:01 -0800, rikona wrote:
>> Yep - restart after update - still there...

> I say you should take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's
> the only way to be sure...

Given the problems, and how they recur, I'm considering that, and
going with KDE or something else besides the default Ubuntu. Trouble
is, my favorite pgms are from several desktops and that doesn't seem
to work well anymore. :-(

I still look enviously at my old 12.04 box that just keeps running
well with a similar set of pgms, and does things like phones, camera
and other chips better than 16.04. Sigh....

> PS: A restart is not the same as a reboot.

True - I did both on different updates.

> Have you power cycled the system?

I did not turn off the power completely - I assumed that would not
make a difference.

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:20:32 -0800, rikona wrote:
>> Have you power cycled the system?  
>
>I did not turn off the power completely - I assumed that would not
>make a difference.

In regards to Ubuntu software issues rebooting with or without shutdown
should be enough, in regards to hardware issues it isn't.

Most likely it doesn't make a difference regarding the issue you
experience, but you never know, it doesn't harm to disconnect from power
for a while. Usually (but not necessarily) the power switch of the power
supply does disconnect, but even a shutdown doesn't. Capacitors could
keep charge for minutes, but for computers it usually is enough to wait
a few seconds, before connecting with power again, to get rid of power
related hardware issues.

Could you post a screenshot?


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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

rikona
Hello Ralf,

Friday, January 27, 2017, 9:36:15 PM, Ralf wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:20:32 -0800, rikona wrote:
>>> Have you power cycled the system?  
>>
>>I did not turn off the power completely - I assumed that would not
>>make a difference.

> In regards to Ubuntu software issues rebooting with or without shutdown
> should be enough, in regards to hardware issues it isn't.

> Most likely it doesn't make a difference regarding the issue you
> experience, but you never know, it doesn't harm to disconnect from power
> for a while. Usually (but not necessarily) the power switch of the power
> supply does disconnect, but even a shutdown doesn't. Capacitors could
> keep charge for minutes, but for computers it usually is enough to wait
> a few seconds, before connecting with power again, to get rid of power
> related hardware issues.

> Could you post a screenshot?

Wild, wild, wild.... I was setting up to get a screenshot and very
rapidly did a whole bunch of large copies from Nemo to other Nemo
windows. I got the often small window 'preparing to copy" which can
take a few minutes to clear, then all five of the Nemo windows went
gray and stopped responding. I waited a long time and they didn't
recover so I decided to just stop them in htop. I think I was stopping
the third window when they all disappeared [maybe that was the hung
window?].

BUT - when I went to start them again I noticed that the long standing
problem graphics I have been talking about were GONE!!! So, maybe
there was something about Nemo that was causing it? I had never
stopped a hung Nemo via a CLI or htop before - that was new. Anyway,
by accident, I seemed to have solved something that has survived
multiple reboots, and I have no clue why it went away. I don't want to
reboot just yet but I hope it does not again reappear when I do
reboot. I'd like to consider this closed, but if it does come back
I'll mention it again.

I do appreciate your responses in helping to solve this, and if anyone
has a clue why stopping a hung Nemo may have fixed it, please tell
me...

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by rikona
On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 21:20 -0800, rikona wrote:
> > Have you power cycled the system?
> I did not turn off the power completely - I assumed that would not
> make a difference.

It does. It absolutely guarantees that RAM no longer holds anything put
there by applications or the operating system, and thus that all
software loaded at boot time is exactly what gets loaded off
disk/network/ROM and is not corrupted (unless the disk/network/ROM
version is corrupted).

The right way to power cycle a system is to request a powerdown through
the OS if possible. When that is complete (or if it's not possible)
turn the system off at it's own power switch, if it has one, then turn
it off at the wall (if the wall socket has a switch - some Euro and US
sockets don't). If you can't turn it off at the wall, remove the power
cable from the computer. If your computer has multiple power
connections, repeat for all. Wait ten seconds, then replace everything,
turn the power on at the wall if necessary, turn the power on at the
computer if possible, the computer should start up.

Regards, K.

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

Colin Law
On 28 January 2017 at 09:20, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 21:20 -0800, rikona wrote:
>> > Have you power cycled the system?
>> I did not turn off the power completely - I assumed that would not
>> make a difference.
>
> It does. It absolutely guarantees that RAM no longer holds anything put
> there by applications or the operating system, and thus that all
> software loaded at boot time is exactly what gets loaded off
> disk/network/ROM and is not corrupted (unless the disk/network/ROM
> version is corrupted).
>
> The right way to power cycle a system is to request a powerdown through
> the OS if possible. When that is complete (or if it's not possible)
> turn the system off at it's own power switch, if it has one, then turn
> it off at the wall (if the wall socket has a switch - some Euro and US
> sockets don't). If you can't turn it off at the wall, remove the power
> cable from the computer. If your computer has multiple power
> connections, repeat for all. Wait ten seconds, then replace everything,
> turn the power on at the wall if necessary, turn the power on at the
> computer if possible, the computer should start up.

On a laptop you would have to take the battery out too.

Colin

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

rikona
In reply to this post by rikona
Hello rikona,

Saturday, January 28, 2017, 12:20:41 AM, rikona wrote:

> Hello Ralf,

> Friday, January 27, 2017, 9:36:15 PM, Ralf wrote:

>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:20:32 -0800, rikona wrote:
>>>> Have you power cycled the system?  
>>>
>>>I did not turn off the power completely - I assumed that would not
>>>make a difference.

>> In regards to Ubuntu software issues rebooting with or without shutdown
>> should be enough, in regards to hardware issues it isn't.

>> Most likely it doesn't make a difference regarding the issue you
>> experience, but you never know, it doesn't harm to disconnect from power
>> for a while. Usually (but not necessarily) the power switch of the power
>> supply does disconnect, but even a shutdown doesn't. Capacitors could
>> keep charge for minutes, but for computers it usually is enough to wait
>> a few seconds, before connecting with power again, to get rid of power
>> related hardware issues.

>> Could you post a screenshot?

> Wild, wild, wild.... I was setting up to get a screenshot and very
> rapidly did a whole bunch of large copies from Nemo to other Nemo
> windows. I got the often small window 'preparing to copy" which can
> take a few minutes to clear, then all five of the Nemo windows went
> gray and stopped responding. I waited a long time and they didn't
> recover so I decided to just stop them in htop. I think I was stopping
> the third window when they all disappeared [maybe that was the hung
> window?].

> BUT - when I went to start them again I noticed that the long standing
> problem graphics I have been talking about were GONE!!! So, maybe
> there was something about Nemo that was causing it? I had never
> stopped a hung Nemo via a CLI or htop before - that was new. Anyway,
> by accident, I seemed to have solved something that has survived
> multiple reboots, and I have no clue why it went away. I don't want to
> reboot just yet but I hope it does not again reappear when I do
> reboot. I'd like to consider this closed, but if it does come back
> I'll mention it again.

Well, it did come back after a large update requiring a reboot! I have
done reboots BEFORE the update and it did NOT come back, so something
about this update changed things. This update included kernel stuff -
don't know if that is significant. Other smaller non-kernel updates
did NOT bring the problems back.

But, since stopping Nemo via the CLI worked before, I did that again
and it worked - again. Multiple problems gone. Stopping Nemo by just
closing it does NOT work, but via CLI does. What is the difference
between stopping in those two ways? Any idea what is changed by this
action?

I again tried searching for something that would put inactive
icon-like graphics on the desktop screen after a reboot, but found
nothing. How are these getting there in the first place when they do
show up?

All info much appreciated, but I do have a rather strange workaround,
so not crucial. :-)

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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

rikona
Saturday, February 11, 2017, 12:10:17 PM, rikona wrote:

> But, since stopping Nemo via the CLI worked before, I did that again
> and it worked - again. Multiple problems gone. Stopping Nemo by just
> closing it does NOT work, but via CLI does.

Another odd thing. When it came up after the update, there are two
sets of duplicated graphic icons - one set is inactive [set A], the
other set IS active and work as expected[set B]. Stopping Nemo removes
**set B**, the then-active ones, and set A then becomes the active
icons.

It seems like Nemo inactivates the "normal" icons and substitutes
another set which then become active. Perhaps this behavior could give
a clue what is happening?

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SDA
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Re: unresponsive screen graphics

SDA
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 01:50:55PM -0800, rikona wrote:

> Saturday, February 11, 2017, 12:10:17 PM, rikona wrote:
>
> > But, since stopping Nemo via the CLI worked before, I did that again
> > and it worked - again. Multiple problems gone. Stopping Nemo by just
> > closing it does NOT work, but via CLI does.
>
> Another odd thing. When it came up after the update, there are two
> sets of duplicated graphic icons - one set is inactive [set A], the
> other set IS active and work as expected[set B]. Stopping Nemo removes
> **set B**, the then-active ones, and set A then becomes the active
> icons.
>
> It seems like Nemo inactivates the "normal" icons and substitutes
> another set which then become active. Perhaps this behavior could give
> a clue what is happening?

Last time I had this problem, was when I had two file managers
installed: Nemo for Cinnamon and Nautilus for Gnome-Shell. There was
something wrong and when I started Gnome, I had both file mangers
managing by desktop resulting in duplicate icons - only one set worked.
Once I removed Nemo, all was well. Didn't pursue the issue as I didn't
end up using Cinnamon and removed it shortly thereafter.

The point I'm making is remove all your other file managers, if you have
more than one installed. If this works file a bug against whatever DE
you're using.

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