On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 05:28:58 +0100
John Nilsson <
[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 19:53 -0600, Alejandro Bonilla wrote:
> > What goes into the CD is what is most popular/needed/expected/wanted.
> >
> > Am I wrong?
>
> I think the argument is that Firefox in its current incarnation has some
> usability flaws that Epiphany doesn't.
Where "usability flaws" appear to be in the same realm as "Gnome HIG
non-compliance." The way things are going... no I won't start down that
road, I'll just keep running Fluxbox, and try hard to smile benevolently,
in the Ubuntu Code of Conduct tradition...
I mean that the HIG is a great concept and all that, but it
seems to be a religion for some people. If you imagine that the default
Gnome file chooser is well designed, for instance, i invite you to watch a
new user trying to use it... Although I admit it's an improvement on
clicking " dot dot " to go up a directory... ;-)
> So assuming a default
> installation is most important for non-power users, Epiphany would do a
> better job of providing the browsing service.
I've installed GNU/Linux for people who have no clue how a browser works at
all - they quite happily click forward -back - home, and set up bookmarks
for their webmail and favourite sites. I don't know what the fuss is
about, frankly. Epiphany is an OK browser I guess, although those of
us who remember the 1.2.* series of Galeon might feel that , well ...
let's say, it isn't an improvement...
Where people get confused is when flash and java
don't work (so I set that up for them - it's a waste of time explaining
why they aren't there, at least until you have them working - at that
point you have a more receptive audience, and the occasional person who
will say "Well, I don't really need that I guess
- maybe I'll get rid of it". Hardly the "purist" approach to advocacy, I
know.
>
> OTH Ubuntu is Linux, how many non-power users are going to install
> Ubuntu on their own and then having problem with the browser?
>
> The person administering the install should be responsible enough to be
> able to choose what browser is best suited for the intended user.
See above. I haven't had any complaints about Firefox. Other applications,
yes. But Firefox just seems to do fine with "non" so-called "Power
Users" (I hate that term by the way.. it's so pretentious,
... no criticism of your use of it intended - it seems to have
become common usage, to my chagrin)
>
> Meanwhile the largest group of users confronted with a fresh Ubuntu
> installation will, for the foreseeable future, be power-user (implied
> firefox users), thus firefox is the most sensible choice.
See above. I think its a non-issue.
>
> Have I summarized the debate correctly?
Nice attempt, but I think the protagonists of the debate are out of touch
with a significant part of the user base ;-)
This is how the people for whom I've installed Linux use it: they have web
mail. (Usually *shudder* Hotmail, sometimes Yahoo, or just the ISP
provided interface.) They neither understand, nor see any advantage in
using Evolution, Kmail, or the like. They have a handful of favourite
sites. They use OOo to type letters, resumes etc. They expect their
printer to work. They never use the Gimp, because they are quite happy with
snapshots of the children/grandchildren which they can view with eog,
Firefox or gthumb ( only the more "advanced" even *find* gthumb.) And so
on... The kinds of people I'm talking about have no interest in
"Evolution", because they have always used a pen, an address book and a
diary if they need that sort of thing. Remember those? They worked rather
well, for centuries...
For such people, Ubuntu is actually massive overkill. They don't realise
how much power is at their fingertips. Even if they did, few would care or
need to use that power. They use computers because they are a means of
communication (email, IM, requirements to produce documents etc). The
*major* advantage for the "admin" is the relative lack of calls saying "My
computer is broken/slow/jammed.... Doesn't Work (tm)"
Disclaimer: I wasn't going to reply to this thread, as I see clearly that
it is off-topic for ubuntu-devel, and probably should be on Sounder - but
then I thought, "even the "Gods of Ubuntu" need to be reminded occasionally
that there are some very ordinary mortals out there who use their stuff".
So I'll send it. I expect a deafening silence, incomprehension, or
accusations of one sort or another. Perhaps not. though. One can always
hope. If the list readership sees this as a troll, it has missed the point
- spectacularly.
I invite the elite to sup at the table of the humans for whom technology
is a mystery vouchsafed to them by wizards.
Epiphany or Firefox? They would not know the difference! And that is not
because they are stupid - they are wiser than those who indulge in these
petty debates. ( including me, of course ;-))
Sincerely,
Peter
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