wiped disk - no longer bootable

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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

ubuntu-users mailing list
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:15:24 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

>Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
>suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
>wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
>should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100%
>CMOS based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC
>sniffers. We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in
>stuff built 20 years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't
>properly wired by incompetent carpenters.  You can get those gizmo's
>from your nearest home center, electrical aisle.
>
>When I married this lady in '89, I moved into a house she'd bought
>in '81. Since there weren't any children to consider, I took the 3rd,
>smaller bedroom and made it into my computer den. First thing in the
>next storm, blowed a modem.  Replaced it, blew it again. I took the
>sockets out, verified they were wired right and soldered them with a
>silver bearing solder, going all the way back to the service, found it
>wasn't properly grounded and fixed that. That was 18 years ago, and I
>haven't lost a single piece of gear since. I don't care if lightning
>hits my service pole and sends me a quarter million volt surge, but if
>everything is properly bonded so that everything bounces in unison,
>nothing will be hurt.  I've since built a wired workshed and a garage,
>that needed a new 200 amp service, so this house is now a subcircuit.
>And I still seem to be safe.

Old houses are an electric nightmare. I suffer from potential
difference between one power outlet to another. Connect a grounded
guitar amp to one power outlet and connect my single coil guitar with
grounded strings and then touch the grounded metal case of my mixing
console connected to another power outlet, while at the same time you
touch the strings and have fun.

Not to mention that when I worked for Brauner Microphones we had just
one isolating transformer, most of the gear was directly connected to
the power outlets and the RCCB was dimensioned for heavy agricultural
gear, since the manufactory was a farm in the first place.

Nowadays at home, I don't own a transformer for galvanic isolation at
all, but at least the RCCB has got a sane value.


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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

rikona
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-2
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:15:24 -0400
Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thursday 11 July 2019 06:03:09 Liam Proven wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 at 23:05, Gene Heskett <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
> > > I've tried to steer clear if those unless wet.  Dry, they can
> > > generate enough static to blow the gates it your memory.  
> >
> > Aargh!
> >
> > Shows you can't trust all online tech tips... :-(  
>
> Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
> suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
> wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
> should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100%
> CMOS based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC
> sniffers. We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in
> stuff built 20 years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't
> properly wired by incompetent carpenters.  You can get those gizmo's
> from your nearest home center, electrical aisle.
>
> When I married this lady in '89, I moved into a house she'd bought
> in '81. Since there weren't any children to consider, I took the 3rd,
> smaller bedroom and made it into my computer den. First thing in the
> next storm, blowed a modem.  Replaced it, blew it again. I took the
> sockets out, verified they were wired right and soldered them with a
> silver bearing solder, going all the way back to the service, found
> it wasn't properly grounded and fixed that. That was 18 years ago,
> and I haven't lost a single piece of gear since. I don't care if
> lightning hits my service pole and sends me a quarter million volt
> surge, but if everything is properly bonded so that everything
> bounces in unison, nothing will be hurt.  I've since built a wired
> workshed and a garage, that needed a new 200 amp service, so this
> house is now a subcircuit. And I still seem to be safe.

I'll second your comments re older house electrical problems. I also had
improper grounding which I fixed. Also had poor connections, which I
first noticed when a switch plate was slightly loose and could move a
bit, causing the light to flicker. At that point I checked the whole
house and found other issues as well. It IS worth checking - the loose
connections were potential safety issues.

Rik


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Re[2]: wiped disk - no longer bootable

Gary Curtin
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
>On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:15:24 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
>>suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
>>wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
>>should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100%
>>CMOS based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC
>>sniffers. We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in
>>stuff built 20 years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't
>>properly wired by incompetent carpenters.  You can get those gizmo's
>>from your nearest home center, electrical aisle.
>>
>>When I married this lady in '89, I moved into a house she'd bought
>>in '81. Since there weren't any children to consider, I took the 3rd,
>>smaller bedroom and made it into my computer den. First thing in the
>>next storm, blowed a modem.  Replaced it, blew it again. I took the
>>sockets out, verified they were wired right and soldered them with a
>>silver bearing solder, going all the way back to the service, found it
>>wasn't properly grounded and fixed that. That was 18 years ago, and I
>>haven't lost a single piece of gear since. I don't care if lightning
>>hits my service pole and sends me a quarter million volt surge, but if
>>everything is properly bonded so that everything bounces in unison,
>>nothing will be hurt.  I've since built a wired workshed and a garage,
>>that needed a new 200 amp service, so this house is now a subcircuit.
>>And I still seem to be safe.
>
>Old houses are an electric nightmare. I suffer from potential
>difference between one power outlet to another. Connect a grounded
>guitar amp to one power outlet and connect my single coil guitar with
>grounded strings and then touch the grounded metal case of my mixing
>console connected to another power outlet, while at the same time you
>touch the strings and have fun.
>
>Not to mention that when I worked for Brauner Microphones we had just
>one isolating transformer, most of the gear was directly connected to
>the power outlets and the RCCB was dimensioned for heavy agricultural
>gear, since the manufactory was a farm in the first place.
>
>Nowadays at home, I don't own a transformer for galvanic isolation at
>all, but at least the RCCB has got a sane value.
>
>

I thought this list was for "Ubuntu user technical support, not for
general discussions".

Maybe soldering and galvanic isolation are linked to my favourite OS,
but I just can't see it. What am I missing?

Gary


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Re: Filesystem corruption

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Compdoc@hotrodpc.com
Zitat von compdoc <[hidden email]>:

> On 7/10/19 12:24 PM, Volker Wysk wrote:
>
>> I was able to make a backup and flash the new ROM. After rebooting,  
>> the first hard disk is found, and booted from. This means, the  
>> other (smaller) problem with the BIOS has gone away.
>
>
> Great to hear. Are you not using the ssd, atm? I thought you said  
> you were booting from the hdd?

I mean, the GRUB boot menu starts from the first disk. That's the HDD  
right now.

I have installed Ubuntu 19.04 on both the HDD and the SSD. But I am  
*not* able to reproduce the corruption problem, on either disk. The  
computer appears to run fine.


> If so, why not power down, disconnect the hdd, place the ssd on the  
> first sata port in your system. (can be numbered 0 or 1)
>
> Install ubuntu on the ssd using LVD and encryption as you like, or  
> normally do. I would recommend Ubuntu-Mate 18.04LTS, unless you have  
> a good reason to use a newer version.

I want the latest Gnome, therefore I've chosen Ubuntu 19.04. But  
that's not relevant for troubleshooting the problem, or is it?

> Newer versions are not always stable.

But the first point release, 19.04.1 should be more stable. Or..?

> I use mate because I like to log in remotely, and I like mate  
> desktop layout. But any flavor of LTS is fine.

I don't quite get it. Why do you need an LTS version? To rule out  
sources of error?

> Anyway, allow the ubuntu installer to choose the partitioning  
> because anything else is too much work. then boot it, and give it a  
> workout.

> When you know that its stable,

That's the problem, you can't know it's stable. (You only can know  
when it's NOT stable.)

The ubuntu 19.04 running here, seems to be stable, but...

> attach the hdd to the second port, and in the bios make sure it  
> continues to boot from the ssd, and boot and access your files. On  
> some systems, the first two sata ports are the fastest.


Bye


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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

ubuntu-users mailing list
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 17:52:12 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:15:24 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
>>suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
>>wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
>>should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100%
>>CMOS based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC
>>sniffers. We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in
>>stuff built 20 years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't
>>properly wired by incompetent carpenters.  You can get those gizmo's
>>from your nearest home center, electrical aisle.
>>
>>When I married this lady in '89, I moved into a house she'd bought
>>in '81. Since there weren't any children to consider, I took the 3rd,
>>smaller bedroom and made it into my computer den. First thing in the
>>next storm, blowed a modem.  Replaced it, blew it again. I took the
>>sockets out, verified they were wired right and soldered them with a
>>silver bearing solder, going all the way back to the service, found
>>it wasn't properly grounded and fixed that. That was 18 years ago,
>>and I haven't lost a single piece of gear since. I don't care if
>>lightning hits my service pole and sends me a quarter million volt
>>surge, but if everything is properly bonded so that everything
>>bounces in unison, nothing will be hurt.  I've since built a wired
>>workshed and a garage, that needed a new 200 amp service, so this
>>house is now a subcircuit. And I still seem to be safe.  
>
>Old houses are an electric nightmare. I suffer from potential
>difference between one power outlet to another. Connect a grounded
>guitar amp to one power outlet and connect my single coil guitar with
>grounded strings and then touch the grounded metal case of my mixing
>console connected to another power outlet, while at the same time you
>touch the strings and have fun.
>
>Not to mention that when I worked for Brauner Microphones we had just
>one isolating transformer, most of the gear was directly connected to
>the power outlets and the RCCB was dimensioned for heavy agricultural
>gear, since the manufactory was a farm in the first place.
>
>Nowadays at home, I don't own a transformer for galvanic isolation at
>all, but at least the RCCB has got a sane value.

I've forgotten to mention that current leak of whiteware such as
dishwashers, could still be an issue, even if the RCCB has got a sane
value.


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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

ubuntu-users mailing list
In reply to this post by Gary Curtin
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:03:06 +0000, Gary Curtin wrote:
>I thought this list was for "Ubuntu user technical support, not for
>general discussions".
>
>Maybe soldering and galvanic isolation are linked to my favourite OS,
>but I just can't see it. What am I missing?

You are missing that current leak of your whiteware could kill you, if
you touch the metal of your USB3 cable's plug. Ok, it's a little bit
farfetched, but it might explain why we became a little bit off-topic.


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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
On Thursday 11 July 2019 11:52:12 Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:15:24 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
> >suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
> >wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
> >should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100%
> >CMOS based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC
> >sniffers. We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in
> >stuff built 20 years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't
> >properly wired by incompetent carpenters.  You can get those gizmo's
> >from your nearest home center, electrical aisle.
> >
> >When I married this lady in '89, I moved into a house she'd bought
> >in '81. Since there weren't any children to consider, I took the 3rd,
> >smaller bedroom and made it into my computer den. First thing in the
> >next storm, blowed a modem.  Replaced it, blew it again. I took the
> >sockets out, verified they were wired right and soldered them with a
> >silver bearing solder, going all the way back to the service, found
> > it wasn't properly grounded and fixed that. That was 18 years ago,
> > and I haven't lost a single piece of gear since. I don't care if
> > lightning hits my service pole and sends me a quarter million volt
> > surge, but if everything is properly bonded so that everything
> > bounces in unison, nothing will be hurt.  I've since built a wired
> > workshed and a garage, that needed a new 200 amp service, so this
> > house is now a subcircuit. And I still seem to be safe.
>
> Old houses are an electric nightmare. I suffer from potential
> difference between one power outlet to another. Connect a grounded
> guitar amp to one power outlet and connect my single coil guitar with
> grounded strings and then touch the grounded metal case of my mixing
> console connected to another power outlet, while at the same time you
> touch the strings and have fun.
>
I don't call it fun, having yet the faint scars from electrical burns.
But he wasn't ready for me so I am a survivor. It did trigger one hell
of a case of the shingles though.

What you are describing is either a difference in polarity because the
socket isn't wired right, possibly combined with one socket is on one
leg of a 240 volt feed and the other socket is on the opposite leg.

You Ralf, I think, have more than enough smarts to figure out a way to
test and fix that. On this side of the pond, the wider slot is supposed
to be the neutral, and pretty close to ground. And the ONLY place where
an ohmic connection between neutral and a real, rods driven a couple
meters or more into the ground is in the entrance wiring. neutrals in a
distribution box should be isolated from the box and its static grounds
to the box, with the static ground carried to the box by a third
separated conductor.  Here I suspect, we have a problem yet with color
blind wire pullers.

The German equ to our NEC code may differ here and there but generally
follows the same ideas I'd expect.  Its what works.

> Not to mention that when I worked for Brauner Microphones we had just
> one isolating transformer, most of the gear was directly connected to
> the power outlets and the RCCB was dimensioned for heavy agricultural
> gear, since the manufactory was a farm in the first place.
>
> Nowadays at home, I don't own a transformer for galvanic isolation at
> all, but at least the RCCB has got a sane value.

If the place is wired correctly, you should never need one.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by rikona
On Thursday 11 July 2019 12:03:01 rikona wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:15:24 -0400
>
> Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Thursday 11 July 2019 06:03:09 Liam Proven wrote:
> > > On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 at 23:05, Gene Heskett <[hidden email]>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > I've tried to steer clear if those unless wet.  Dry, they can
> > > > generate enough static to blow the gates it your memory.
> > >
> > > Aargh!
> > >
> > > Shows you can't trust all online tech tips... :-(
> >
> > Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
> > suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
> > wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
> > should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100%
> > CMOS based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC
> > sniffers. We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in
> > stuff built 20 years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't
> > properly wired by incompetent carpenters.  You can get those gizmo's
> > from your nearest home center, electrical aisle.
> >
> > When I married this lady in '89, I moved into a house she'd bought
> > in '81. Since there weren't any children to consider, I took the
> > 3rd, smaller bedroom and made it into my computer den. First thing
> > in the next storm, blowed a modem.  Replaced it, blew it again. I
> > took the sockets out, verified they were wired right and soldered
> > them with a silver bearing solder, going all the way back to the
> > service, found it wasn't properly grounded and fixed that. That was
> > 18 years ago, and I haven't lost a single piece of gear since. I
> > don't care if lightning hits my service pole and sends me a quarter
> > million volt surge, but if everything is properly bonded so that
> > everything bounces in unison, nothing will be hurt.  I've since
> > built a wired workshed and a garage, that needed a new 200 amp
> > service, so this house is now a subcircuit. And I still seem to be
> > safe.
>
> I'll second your comments re older house electrical problems. I also
> had improper grounding which I fixed. Also had poor connections, which
> I first noticed when a switch plate was slightly loose and could move
> a bit, causing the light to flicker. At that point I checked the whole
> house and found other issues as well. It IS worth checking - the loose
> connections were potential safety issues.
>
> Rik

I once bought a house in Nebraska that was wired just barely post knob
and ball. One night when it was really cold and we had several heaters
plugged in, I was awakened by a buzzing noise emanating from the closet
of the bedroom I was in.  The electrical entrance box was in there, and
my instant diagnosis was that the other end of a 7" piece piece of 12
gauge, which was hooked to the meter socket on the other side of the
wall, was burning up and arcing as I could see it flickering thru the
hole in the wall the meter cable came in thru. I got dressed, went out
and cut the seal on the meter (that's a felony in Nebraska), pulled the
meter and sure as hell one post was about burned up. I fixed it solid,
plugged the meter back in, got in my pickup and went to my job site and
borrowed a foot of 8 gauge, came back and made a whole new jumper. Since
I was then the super at Wayne County Public Powers biggest customer I
called Ron the next morning and told him to have one of his guys come by
and put a new seal on my meter head.  He of course wanted to know how it
got broken, but no problems once he heard the story of my short night.  

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

ubuntu-users mailing list
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-2
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 12:26:55 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

>On Thursday 11 July 2019 11:52:12 Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:15:24 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:  
>> >Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
>> >suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
>> >wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
>> >should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100%
>> >CMOS based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC
>> >sniffers. We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in
>> >stuff built 20 years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't
>> >properly wired by incompetent carpenters.  You can get those gizmo's
>> >from your nearest home center, electrical aisle.
>> >
>> >When I married this lady in '89, I moved into a house she'd bought
>> >in '81. Since there weren't any children to consider, I took the
>> >3rd, smaller bedroom and made it into my computer den. First thing
>> >in the next storm, blowed a modem.  Replaced it, blew it again. I
>> >took the sockets out, verified they were wired right and soldered
>> >them with a silver bearing solder, going all the way back to the
>> >service, found
>> > it wasn't properly grounded and fixed that. That was 18 years ago,
>> > and I haven't lost a single piece of gear since. I don't care if
>> > lightning hits my service pole and sends me a quarter million volt
>> > surge, but if everything is properly bonded so that everything
>> > bounces in unison, nothing will be hurt.  I've since built a wired
>> > workshed and a garage, that needed a new 200 amp service, so this
>> > house is now a subcircuit. And I still seem to be safe.  
>>
>> Old houses are an electric nightmare. I suffer from potential
>> difference between one power outlet to another. Connect a grounded
>> guitar amp to one power outlet and connect my single coil guitar with
>> grounded strings and then touch the grounded metal case of my mixing
>> console connected to another power outlet, while at the same time you
>> touch the strings and have fun.
>>  
>I don't call it fun, having yet the faint scars from electrical burns.
>But he wasn't ready for me so I am a survivor. It did trigger one hell
>of a case of the shingles though.
>
>What you are describing is either a difference in polarity because the
>socket isn't wired right, possibly combined with one socket is on one
>leg of a 240 volt feed and the other socket is on the opposite leg.
>
>You Ralf, I think, have more than enough smarts to figure out a way to
>test and fix that. On this side of the pond, the wider slot is
>supposed to be the neutral, and pretty close to ground. And the ONLY
>place where an ohmic connection between neutral and a real, rods
>driven a couple meters or more into the ground is in the entrance
>wiring. neutrals in a distribution box should be isolated from the box
>and its static grounds to the box, with the static ground carried to
>the box by a third separated conductor.  Here I suspect, we have a
>problem yet with color blind wire pullers.
>
>The German equ to our NEC code may differ here and there but generally
>follows the same ideas I'd expect.  Its what works.
>
>> Not to mention that when I worked for Brauner Microphones we had just
>> one isolating transformer, most of the gear was directly connected to
>> the power outlets and the RCCB was dimensioned for heavy agricultural
>> gear, since the manufactory was a farm in the first place.
>>
>> Nowadays at home, I don't own a transformer for galvanic isolation at
>> all, but at least the RCCB has got a sane value.  
>
>If the place is wired correctly, you should never need one.
>
>Cheers, Gene Heskett

German buildings build around World War II or earlier, afterwards got
concrete-footing ground electrodes and in the early days electrical
workers were men only. Men way more often suffer from dyschromatopsia
than women do ;). I'm helpless, it's impossible to get rid of all
issues, knowledge could be helpful, but there are a lot of factors
that could put obstructions in somebodies way.


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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by Gary Curtin
On Thursday 11 July 2019 12:03:06 Gary Curtin wrote:

> >On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:15:24 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
> >>suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
> >>wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
> >>should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100%
> >>CMOS based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC
> >>sniffers. We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in
> >>stuff built 20 years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't
> >>properly wired by incompetent carpenters.  You can get those gizmo's
> >>from your nearest home center, electrical aisle.
> >>
> >>When I married this lady in '89, I moved into a house she'd bought
> >>in '81. Since there weren't any children to consider, I took the
> >> 3rd, smaller bedroom and made it into my computer den. First thing
> >> in the next storm, blowed a modem.  Replaced it, blew it again. I
> >> took the sockets out, verified they were wired right and soldered
> >> them with a silver bearing solder, going all the way back to the
> >> service, found it wasn't properly grounded and fixed that. That was
> >> 18 years ago, and I haven't lost a single piece of gear since. I
> >> don't care if lightning hits my service pole and sends me a quarter
> >> million volt surge, but if everything is properly bonded so that
> >> everything bounces in unison, nothing will be hurt.  I've since
> >> built a wired workshed and a garage, that needed a new 200 amp
> >> service, so this house is now a subcircuit. And I still seem to be
> >> safe.
> >
> >Old houses are an electric nightmare. I suffer from potential
> >difference between one power outlet to another. Connect a grounded
> >guitar amp to one power outlet and connect my single coil guitar with
> >grounded strings and then touch the grounded metal case of my mixing
> >console connected to another power outlet, while at the same time you
> >touch the strings and have fun.
> >
> >Not to mention that when I worked for Brauner Microphones we had just
> >one isolating transformer, most of the gear was directly connected to
> >the power outlets and the RCCB was dimensioned for heavy agricultural
> >gear, since the manufactory was a farm in the first place.
> >
> >Nowadays at home, I don't own a transformer for galvanic isolation at
> >all, but at least the RCCB has got a sane value.
>
> I thought this list was for "Ubuntu user technical support, not for
> general discussions".
>
> Maybe soldering and galvanic isolation are linked to my favourite OS,
> but I just can't see it. What am I missing?
>
> Gary

The shareing of knowledge that needs to be shared. I can't think of a
more widely distributed way to reach those who need to be advised than
the mailing list when someone else mentions a problem that has  
potentially lethal aspects.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
On Thursday 11 July 2019 12:16:26 Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users wrote:

> I've forgotten to mention that current leak of whiteware such as
> dishwashers, could still be an issue, even if the RCCB has got a sane
> value.

Yes, since they are generally wired straight to a feed of romex, they
definitely need checked with a pocket sniffer.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: Filesystem corruption

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Volker Wysk
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 at 18:11, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have installed Ubuntu 19.04 on both the HDD and the SSD. But I am
> *not* able to reproduce the corruption problem, on either disk. The
> computer appears to run fine.

That's good, right?

But we do not know yet if it's the newer BIOS.

Are you using LVM + encryption + caching?

> But the first point release, 19.04.1 should be more stable. Or..?

There won't be a point release of 19.04. Short-term editions don't get
point releases. Only LTS editions get them.

> I don't quite get it. Why do you need an LTS version? To rule out
> sources of error?

Many of us, me included, for machines which we use for work, only run
LTS releases. I don't run the short-term support editions on any of my
machines at the moment, and when I have had machines with them, they
are for testing and playing around, not for serious use.

Partly because upgrading every 6 months is a pain. Especially because
sometimes things do not work right when you do. For example, I can
only bear to use GNOME 3 if it is fairly heavily customised with
extensions. In my experience, when you update to a new release, about
half your GNOME extensions stop working. This can lead to an unusable
desktop, e.g. can't log in, or can't run programs, or can't log out,
or can't update/remove extensions.

So I only use LTS editions.

Partly because LTS releases get more testing and if there are serious
problems they get fixed. With non-LTS ones, if there is a non-fatal
problem, it might not get fixed until the next release, meaning you
have to just live with it for 6 months.

Then you might get new problems with the new release.

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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-2
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 at 17:17, Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well, me being both a retired tech, a C.E.T. and basicly a belt and
> suspenders type in this regard, I also will be wearing a "ground me"
> wrist band.  Those things are cheap enough, 2 or 3 bucks, that you
> should always snap it on before touching what is today, nearly 100% CMOS
> based circuitry. I also make heavy use of one of those $14 AC sniffers.
> We still have in most pre-NEC built houses, and even in stuff built 20
> years post-NEC 3 pin electrical plugs that aren't properly wired by
> incompetent carpenters.

I'm afraid I don't know what a CET is or what the NEC is, and I'm not
sure what 3-pin plugs you mean.

Basically all the rest of the world runs on 220V mains. I moved from
Britain to Czechia 5Y ago, so I am still contending with French-style
sockets:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#CEE_7/5_socket_and_CEE_7/6_plug_(French;_Type_E)

When almost everything I own has UK plugs on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types#BS_1363_three-pin_(rectangular)_plugs_and_sockets

I also have to deal with Euro plugs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug

But that's all. Nothing else is used around these parts, AFAIK.

"NEC" has 2 meanings to me:
* the National Exhibition Centre: http://www.thenec.co.uk/
* a Japanese electrical/electronics goods maker: https://www.nec.com/

And that's all.

Having gone looking, I guess you mean this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Electrical_Code

Never heard of it before and know nothing about it.

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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

ubuntu-users mailing list
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-2
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 12:52:28 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>On Thursday 11 July 2019 12:16:26 Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users wrote:
>
>> I've forgotten to mention that current leak of whiteware such as
>> dishwashers, could still be an issue, even if the RCCB has got a sane
>> value.  
>
>Yes, since they are generally wired straight to a feed of romex, they
>definitely need checked with a pocket sniffer.

I used a
https://www.schalter-steckdosen-shop24.de/ratgeber-wAssets/img/galleries/arbeitsanleitungen/weblication/wThumbnails/Phasenpruefer-33b9ae75d7eee83g8f814239df5801eb.png
after I felt uncomfortable when touching my dishwasher ;).

On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 12:26:55 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Nowadays at home, I don't own a transformer for galvanic isolation at
>> all, but at least the RCCB has got a sane value.  
>
>If the place is wired correctly, you should never need one.

I disagree, even if everything is wired correctly and the RCCB would
react super-soon, an isolating transformer is super-cool when
troubleshooting gear. You could be careless, but in almost all cases
you don't need any other protection at all. AFAIK by German law worshops
are forced to use galvanic isolation.



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Re: Filesystem corruption

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Zitat von Liam Proven <[hidden email]>:

> On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 at 18:11, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have installed Ubuntu 19.04 on both the HDD and the SSD. But I am
>> *not* able to reproduce the corruption problem, on either disk. The
>> computer appears to run fine.
>
> That's good, right?

It depends...

>
> But we do not know yet if it's the newer BIOS.
>
> Are you using LVM + encryption + caching?

I'm installing ubuntu 19.04 with lvm+encryption right now. The  
slow-installer problem seemed to strike again. The download bandwidth  
is fluctuating very much.

>> I don't quite get it. Why do you need an LTS version? To rule out
>> sources of error?
>
> Many of us, me included, for machines which we use for work, only run
> LTS releases. I don't run the short-term support editions on any of my
> machines at the moment, and when I have had machines with them, they
> are for testing and playing around, not for serious use.
>
> Partly because upgrading every 6 months is a pain. Especially because
> sometimes things do not work right when you do. For example, I can
> only bear to use GNOME 3 if it is fairly heavily customised with
> extensions. In my experience, when you update to a new release, about
> half your GNOME extensions stop working. This can lead to an unusable
> desktop, e.g. can't log in, or can't run programs, or can't log out,
> or can't update/remove extensions.
>
> So I only use LTS editions.
>
> Partly because LTS releases get more testing and if there are serious
> problems they get fixed. With non-LTS ones, if there is a non-fatal
> problem, it might not get fixed until the next release, meaning you
> have to just live with it for 6 months.
>
> Then you might get new problems with the new release.

That's bad news.

How do you keep Gnome3 up to date? Are there Gnome-PPAs? Kubuntu had 2  
PPAs for KDE, but the upgrade to the newest KDE didn't seem to work  
well. Actually, there were a lot of problems with KDE.

I guess you do a do-release-upgrade to upgrade to the next LTS  
release. Does this cause problems? I had a Kubuntu 16.04 LTS, which I  
tried to upgrade to 18.04 LTS with do-release-upgrade. This completely  
wrecked my system. I had to set up everything again.

The 16.04 LTS version was quite buggy with respect to KDE, even though  
it was an LTS release. I mean it had packaging bugs, amongst others.

Thanks for your explaination. It means that I will probably stick with  
LTS versions.

Bye
Volker


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Re: Filesystem corruption

Liam Proven
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 at 20:56, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'm installing ubuntu 19.04 with lvm+encryption right now. The
> slow-installer problem seemed to strike again. The download bandwidth
> is fluctuating very much.

Good luck.

Like I said before: you could just untick "download updates when
installing." You can always just update when you're done, and that
way, you can do other stuff at the same time.

> That's bad news.

Not really. Maybe it's just because I'm old but 2 years doesn't seem
like such a long time any more.

LTS to LTS updates seem to be slightly more reliable than
standard-to-standard ones. I suppose they get more testing, too.

But upgrading is hazardous, yes. Especially if you customise your
system, and I do.

I don't think I've ever had it totally fail, though. 18.04 was
troublesome; it failed half way through, so I just did the usual:

sudo -s
apt install -f
apt full-upgrade -y

... and it finished normally. Unity had been uninstalled, so I
manually reinstalled that. So had my Synaptics touchpad drivers, so
later, I reinstalled them too.

Now the machine works fine again, but I sort of wish I hadn't upgraded
-- there's no useful improvement over 16.04 for me, and it was faster
before.

> How do you keep Gnome3 up to date?

I don't. I run Unity on Ubuntu and XKFE on openSUSE.

I've tried GNOME 3 on both, and on Fedora. I don't like it.

> Are there Gnome-PPAs?

I think I answered this before.

I wouldn't. Serious bugs in the LTS version will be fixed, because
it's an LTS. If they can't, they will upgrade GNOME for you. It's
happened before with Firefox and LibreOffice.

> Actually, there were a lot of problems with KDE.

This I can believe. I don't like it much either.

I installed LXQt on my KDE laptop and I like it more.

> I guess you do a do-release-upgrade to upgrade to the next LTS
> release.

Yes.

> Does this cause problems?

It can.

> Thanks for your explaination. It means that I will probably stick with
> LTS versions.

You're welcome. LTS releases do make for a quieter life. :-)

You can always dual-boot the current release as a standby and if you
want to experiment.

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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Zitat von Liam Proven <[hidden email]>:

> Secondarily: a single 4 *TB* partition? :-o

Yes. That's KISS!  :-)  No need to introduce more partitions than for  
/ and for /boot.

>> I just used the (k)ubuntu installer for LVM and encryption.
>
> Wow. OK. Well, I strongly suggest following the advice of people here
> and trying to keep things as simple and "vanilla" as possible when it
> comes to fancy partitioning systems, LVM, encryption, etc.

I strongly support that advice. Only when I need to stray from the  
vanilla path, for what I have in mind, I do it. How more vanilla could  
it get, than clicking a single check box for LVM/encryption. My  
SSD-as-a-cache (dm-cache) however, isn't vanilla at all ... ... ...

Bye!
Volker


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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

Liam Proven
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 14:20, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes. That's KISS!  :-)  No need to introduce more partitions than for
> / and for /boot.

Not really. For a start, having /home on a separate volume makes
backup, recovery, dual-booting etc. much easier. Most machines don't
need /boot any more. Separate /swap is good for performance. Etc. etc.

> I strongly support that advice. Only when I need to stray from the
> vanilla path, for what I have in mind, I do it. How more vanilla could
> it get, than clicking a single check box for LVM/encryption. My
> SSD-as-a-cache (dm-cache) however, isn't vanilla at all ... ... ...

Yeah, but you aren't!

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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

ubuntu-users mailing list
Volker, seemingly nobody on this list does use a setup such as yours
or those who do, don't reply for what reason ever.

_Nobody_ contributing to this thread has got the slightest idea, if you
suffer from a hardware or software issue or if the problem exists
between chair and keyboard.

It is absolutely ok, if you don't have skills related to hardware, you
still could have the skills to set up an unusual install.

However, _for troubleshooting purpose do not question the term "KISS"_.
Indeed, "KISS" is not per se a term that doesn't allow different points
of view, but in this context "KISS" was explained. I apologize for
introducing the term "KISS" to this thread. My bad!

If you want to get really useful help, start without doing anything
that is beyond the skills and/or imagination of those trying to help
you.

We need to know what happens, if you do a completely idiotproof install
in the first place and then stay with it during the process of sane
troubleshooting, as long as it makes sense to stay with this install.




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Re: wiped disk - no longer bootable

ubuntu-users mailing list
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:16:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>_Nobody_ contributing to this thread has got the slightest idea, if you
>suffer from a hardware or software issue or if the problem exists
>between chair and keyboard.

At the moment I halfe expect the maximum credible accident: Broken
hardware in combination with bad maintained and buggy software and a
user who doesn't know what he is doing. Apart from this I also
suspect that those contributing to this thread either don't have
experiences with a setup such as yours (at least I don't have those
experiences) or they have experiences with a very similar setup and
reasons to not use such a setup.


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